Only English :)

[derosdrs]

If someone want to practise his/her English I recommend "The New York Times" supplement in "Rzeczpospolita" - every Saturday in your nearest newsagent (heh it sounds like an advert). Twelve pages which contains very good articles about different themes.

If I made any mistakes - correct me.

[kettle18]

Practice? I suggest watching BBC/CNN (better CNN, they've got more understandable accent than Brits ) And by the way, come on people, this topic is kind of dying. We've got to make up some new, interesting topic (maybe far away from learning English etc. I think everyone of you who visit this topic knows English and how to master it, right?). Anyways, I was thinking if we could talk bout game translations into Polish? Is it a good thing or a bad thing. What do you think? Personally, I prefer original voices of actors, cause we all know how it's done in our country. We've all seen many reviews in CDA, right? Most of em as I am concerned were rather negative despite some very rare positive ones.

[Gość M.]

If someone want to practise his/her English I recommend "The New York Times" supplement in "Rzeczpospolita" - every Saturday in your nearest newsagent

Why you recommend just this supplement? Is not easier go to Empik and read "real" Times or other native-english newspaper? Or just use the Internet to find an official web pages of some newspaper?

I suggest watching BBC/CNN (better CNN, they've got more understandable accent than Brits

A friend of mine who is studning German Philology and I shared room in dormitory was listening all the time German radio via Internet. [it was really terrible and anoying...]

I prefer original voices of actors, cause we all know how it's done in our country.

Me too but unforyunetely I am not good at listenning so I need subtitlles [engish or polish].

Well in general dubbing in polish language versions i not high quality ut there is some exception [for instance - Bard's Tale ]

[zybex86]

Practice? I suggest watching BBC/CNN (better CNN, they've got more understandable accent than Brits ) And by the way, come on people, this topic is kind of dying. We've got to make up some new, interesting topic (maybe far away from learning English etc. I think everyone of you who visit this topic knows English and how to master it, right?).

Probably they know where to learn English, but sometimes they may need help with they way of studying English. Surely, it was covered in this topic, but if anyone has some questions, I would be happy to answer them (as a future English teacher, I have some professional knowledge of how to acquire a Foreign Language).

Anyways, I was thinking if we could talk bout game translations into Polish? Is it a good thing or a bad thing. What do you think? Personally, I prefer original voices of actors, cause we all know how it's done in our country. We've all seen many reviews in CDA, right? Most of em as I am concerned were rather negative despite some very rare positive ones.

I agree with you kettle18 - most translations into the Polish language are rather poor. Why? Because of the quality of the translation, the voice actors and good implementation of SE.

First, let's take the quality of the translation. If we take any of the games that were translated into Polish, we can clearly see bad translations. The source of this is the fact that the translators do not know their own language. Most of the times, they translate idioms and phasals literally and we get sth like "dowiedziałem się tego z pyska konia". Another reason of bad translations is the language itself. English has some idiomatic expressions which do not have any equivalents in the Polish language and, unfortunatelly, are translated literally in order to present exactly what the character said. For example, "to bring home the bacon" we translate "utrzymywać rodzinę/ zarabiać na życie". Would we see such a translation in a video game? Rarely, as translators want to show, as I said before, exactly the same words which the game char used. Truly, with the improvement of translators' skills, the quality of the translation would improve. Nevertheless, we still have 2 obsticles to pass.

The second reason why the translations are so bad is the attitude of Polish voice actors. On the one hand, we have the poor VAs, regular people who do not have any actor training. They exagerate and make stupid mistakes in pronounciation in their own language which decrease the quality of voice acting substantially. On the other hand, we have professional actors, who think that video games are simple productions which do not need any effort. Only recently it improved - I believe after The Witcher. Their attitude is changing, which gives hope for better translations.

Finally, we have the problem of implementing Polish SE in the game. Take Assassin's Creed for instance. The polish translation is quite OK, but not all the sounds are translated which creates a strange shift between a clearly Polish accent and the Americanized Hebrew. This makes the game sound strange (Personally, I would turn the voice off and just read the subs).

To sum it up, Polish translations are not good enough for Poles who know English. They see/hear the mistakes in the translation, which lowers their raitng of the translation. We also have the attitude of Polish voice actors, which luckily is starting to improve. We also have the way the translation is implemented into the game, sometimes creating a stupid feeling of misplacement between Polish and English. Because of these factors, I prefer playing games in English (of course The Witcher is an exception )

Sorry for my mistakes - I am a bit rusty from not using English in writen form for about 2 months

[kettle18]

To sum it up, Polish translations are not good enough for Poles who know English. They see/hear the mistakes in the translation, which lowers their raitng of the translation. We also have the attitude of Polish voice actors, which luckily is starting to improve. We also have the way the translation is implemented into the game, sometimes creating a stupid feeling of misplacement between Polish and English. Because of these factors, I prefer playing games in English (of course The Witcher is an exception )

True, but doesn't it make you laugh when you hear something like "dowiedziałem się tego z pyska konia", knowing how should it be translated? I, personally laugh my arse off when I hear things like this. But, getting serious and all - attitude is starting to improve - slowly, but it's better than nothing. With tThe Witcher it is quite normal and not unusual that it has great acting part in Polish. After all it's a Polish game so the actors could better feel those chars they were voicing, especially if they read AS books.

[zybex86]

True, but doesn't it make you laugh when you hear something like "dowiedziałem się tego z pyska konia", knowing how should it be translated? I, personally laugh my arse off when I hear things like this.

Of course I laugh, but it doesn't change the fact that I think it's a bad translation. I have a tendency to get mad when I see pll not doing their work as they supposed to

But, getting serious and all - attitude is starting to improve - slowly, but it's better than nothing. With tThe Witcher it is quite normal and not unusual that it has great acting part in Polish. After all it's a Polish game so the actors could better feel those chars they were voicing, especially if they read AS books.

That's my point in all o this

Sorry guys for such a long post, but I think you'll at least try to read it?

I'm too tired to write sth more so please don't ban/delete or anything

Cheers!

[Gość M.]

Well althouh in general I don't like read so long post yesterday I made exception and I don't regret

Reading your post was sheer pleasure

I share your opinion about translations Games.

I have 2 little queston - majority [almost all] PC games is translated into polish. How about translatng PS#, XBOX or other console games?

The second question - What do you think about goverment plan idea about use orginal language version moviesin TV to improve engilsh skills of our society?

[IComeFromBelgium]

Oef, I am happy. I am from Belgium and i speak very good Polish, but my writing in Polish, is writing in Chinese .

Is there still someone from Belgium or the benelux???

If there is:

Antwoord dan eens in het nederlands !

[kettle18]

The second question - What do you think about goverment plan idea about use orginal language version moviesin TV to improve engilsh skills of our society?

Horray, I may finally stop paying for borrowing films in original. I hate Polish readers, they spoil all the fun coming from watching a movie. That's why I stopped wathcing movies on TV long time ago. I would be very happy to see this plan coming to live one day.

[zybex86]

Well althouh in general I don't like read so long post yesterday I made exception and I don't regret

Reading your post was sheer pleasure

Thank you. I'm pleased to hear someone enjoyed my post

I share your opinion about translations Games.

I have 2 little queston - majority [almost all] PC games is translated into polish. How about translatng PS#, XBOX or other console games?

Come to think of it, I don't know... maybe because translating PC games means only changing some sounds or making a patch, but in the case of console games - the whole game would have to be translated - its source code and all... I'm not quite sure if that's the case...

The second question - What do you think about goverment plan idea about use orginal language version moviesin TV to improve engilsh skills of our society?

When I've read in the paper "Biegli zgodzili się, że oglądanie filmów w języku obcym poprawia znajomość tego języka...", I said "ROTFL! They realized it NOW? I knew that for 10 years...". Nevertheless, I am totally FOR the idea, as I hate our lovely LEKTOR

[Gość M.]

I am totally FOR the idea, as I hate our lovely LEKTOR

But according to statistics majority of our society is agaist movies with subtitles... In general I vote for watching orginl version of movies but I hesitate if it is not too troublesome and anoying for some adults who do not know understand english at all and have some problems with reading? And how about seniors?

And next question:Should we use subtitles for all movies or olny part of them?

[IComeFromBelgium]

Horray, I may finally stop paying for borrowing films in original. I hate Polish readers, they spoil all the fun coming from watching a movie. That's why I stopped wathcing movies on TV long time ago. I would be very happy to see this plan coming to live one day.

Yes, I hate lektors too, if there is a good film on the polish tv, and there is a lektor, i switch it off. Why can't the Polish television use subtitles. With subtitles you can learn the other language.

Here in Belgium there are no lektors.

Films in french, german, english, ... are with subtitles. And most of the people can speak good French, German and English cause they have it in school.

How is it in Poland? We have here French in 5 class of the basis school thill the 6 year in Middle school and also in university.

English from the 2 class in Middle school thill university etc.

German from 4 class in Middle school and futher...

You can also learn Latin from the first year in Middle school and there are still a few other languages.

[kettle18]

Yes, I hate lektors too, if there is a good film on the polish tv, and there is a lektor, i switch it off. Why can't the Polish television use subtitles. With subtitles you can learn the other language.

Here in Belgium there are no lektors.

Films in french, german, english, ... are with subtitles. And most of the people can speak good French, German and English cause they have it in school.

How is it in Poland? We have here French in 5 class of the basis school thill the 6 year in Middle school and also in university.

English from the 2 class in Middle school thill university etc.

German from 4 class in Middle school and futher...

You can also learn Latin from the first year in Middle school and there are still a few other languages.

About those readers - I dunno why they don't put subtitles in films on TV? Wouldn't it save them some money? It is, I think, cheaper than hiring readers. Or maybe the cost of reader is bigger than a translator who could make the subtitles?

And about languages. We've got English in primary schools (but not all) from about 4th class.

We can learn other language (depend on secondary school it can be eihter german, french or spanish I guess) and finally there is high school with english, german, french, italian, spanish, russian etc. - you can choose two to study.

[Qbuś]

About those readers - I dunno why they don't put subtitles in films on TV? Wouldn't it save them some money? It is, I think, cheaper than hiring readers. Or maybe the cost of reader is bigger than a translator who could make the subtitles?

The cost of "subtitles only" version is cheaper than the one with readers. It must be because the reader reads out a translation. So in one case we have translation costs and in the other translation plus reader costs. It's all simple. In the case of movie theathers it is a little bit different as the subtitles must be as if "imprinted" on the tape itself but TV has no such problem - the subtitles can be transmitted separately (as is the logo of the station). I may be wrong of course - but this seem logical to me.

[derosdrs]

Yea, I also think that subtitles - in original language or polish (but with the ablility of choice whether to use them or not) are the best solution. And probably this kind of localisation is cheaper than employing actors. Almost always original voices in games are better than voices of translators.

[zybex86]

I believe the subject of LEKTORS dried out, so I think I'll start another topic for discussion

Did you like Beowulf? The movie I mean, as I don't suspect anyone read the book... I haven't seen the movie and I want to hear some opinions. The book is very good, it's like our Pan Tadeusz, but with a bit more action and no romance. The book talks about Beowulf's fight with Grendel and Grendel's mother in the first part and Beowulf's final battle with a dragon. I can only tell you this - read the book in original Olde English, 'cause the version in NEW ENGLISH is just not the same - it's like reading Pan Tadeusz in Polish Youth Slang

[kettle18]

I believe the subject of LEKTORS dried out, so I think I'll start another topic for discussion

Did you like Beowulf? The movie I mean, as I don't suspect anyone read the book... I haven't seen the movie and I want to hear some opinions. The book is very good, it's like our Pan Tadeusz, but with a bit more action and no romance. The book talks about Beowulf's fight with Grendel and Grendel's mother in the first part and Beowulf's final battle with a dragon. I can only tell you this - read the book in original Olde English, 'cause the version in NEW ENGLISH is just not the same - it's like reading Pan Tadeusz in Polish Youth Slang

Brrr..that last one creeps me out And as for the Beowulf - the film was quite good itself, but Leonidas in "300" did a better shout if you know what I mean. And the book? I'm looking forward to read it but where can I get it? I guess my local library won't have such stuff, right?

[Qbuś]

I can only tell you this - read the book in original Olde English, 'cause the version in NEW ENGLISH is just not the same - it's like reading Pan Tadeusz in Polish Youth Slang

Yes! Read it in Old English - the knowledge of that langauge is commonplace in Polish homes. Shame on you if you don't read fluently in OE! This advice is about as sensible as advising people to read the Bible in Arameic. Reading in the original language is best but OE? I am an English philology BA and maybe I could read it so or so in the phonological sense but I would understand much. And reading is about understanding, isn't it? I like the sound of OE but I think that learning it just to read Beowulf would be rather nonsensical. Especially that it would require great effort to learn it good enough to read with understanding...

But for those who want to try, the first verses of the great epic:

Hw?t! We Gardena in geardagum,

?eodcyninga, ?rym gefrunon,

hu ?a ??elingas ellen fremedon.

Oft Scyld Scefing scea?ena ?reatum,

The Modern (not New) English is not that bad... And if someone wants to try, a good idea would be to read them next to one another. Go HERE - it's a great site (with glossary and such) to start and not only.

[zybex86]

Yes! Read it in Old English - the knowledge of that langauge is commonplace in Polish homes. Shame on you if you don't read fluently in OE! This advice is about as sensible as advising people to read the Bible in Arameic. Reading in the original language is best but OE? I am an English philology BA and maybe I could read it so or so in the phonological sense but I would understand much. And reading is about understanding, isn't it? I like the sound of OE but I think that learning it just to read Beowulf would be rather nonsensical. Especially that it would require great effort to learn it good enough to read with understanding...

But for those who want to try, the first verses of the great epic:

Hw?t! We Gardena in geardagum,

?eodcyninga, ?rym gefrunon,

hu ?a ??elingas ellen fremedon.

Oft Scyld Scefing scea?ena ?reatum,

The Modern (not New) English is not that bad... And if someone wants to try, a good idea would be to read them next to one another. Go HERE - it's a great site (with glossary and such) to start and not only.

Sorry... My mistake I've read the modern version BUT I saw an even newer version. The OE version is frickin hard to read or to do anything with it so to speak I will now correct my mistake - read Beowulf in Elizabethian English (the one given by Qbuś). You will enjoy it I think more than the movie.

Qbuś - I am a 4th year Student of English Philology. I mixed up Ye Olde English with the one used in Shakespeare's times (don't hit me for not spelling HIS name correctly, as he wrote his name in different ways all the time). Qbuś, can you tell me the subject of your BA paper? I'm thinking of writing about the Gamer community as I will specialize in Cultural Studies...

OH! I almost forgot. I participated in one of Shakespeare's plays durring my 3rd year. It was Mackbeth. When the movie from the play will be online - I will give you a link

[Senkel001]

Whoof... And it has become. At last I decide to wrote something here. My english isn't very good, so, when I make a mistake, please corect me with no mercy. About polish lektors... Some time ago, I was bought a anime. There was a two kind of localization: subtitles, and with a lektor's. Certainly I watched it with sub. But, for curiosity I was watch one ep. witch a lektor, and that was... horible!

[Rankin]

English anime VAs (voice actors) are far worse. Six or seven people doing all anime for the last ten or more years and not improving a single bit - now that's bad!

[Lord Nargogh]

Greetings!

I'd like to complain about translations, just like you did

I've readen several books in english, and they were far more interesting then their Polish versions. Two arguments: Lord of the Rings, and its feral translation by Jerzy Łoziński. Everything was changed, for example Rivendell was called Tajar, Samwise Gamgee was translated into Samlis Gaduła (curious, because Gamgee has no meaning at all and should not be translated). For the first time when I read it, I had problems with finding out who is who and about what place the book is talking about, even though I have known all story already.

Second argument is the translation of Harry Potter series. In general, in Poland this book is treated as the fairy tale and book for children. Sincerely, after reading Polish version I can agree with that. But when I've read original english Order of Phoenix, I was shocked! The climate of book was totally different, much more grim, interesting and magic. The biggest change I've noticed, was the discribing of Harry's dream, when he had vision about biting mr. Weasley as the snake. In Polish version, we could read that snake-Harry was sneaking to mr Weasley, and finally he woked up while attacking him. In original, Harry after snaking has bitten mr. Weasley, and could even feel the taste of his guts...

I hope that everyone can see the difference...

[zybex86]

It is also about censorship. In poland it is very strict and therefore we cannot write/translate a lot of things. I may be mistaken on this, as I haven't investigated the fact at all

Lord Nargogh - First of all, kudos for your nick Secondly, what kind of translation of LOTR have you read? Never heard of it When I read LOTR in polish, the names were OK. I have a polish version of "The Hobbit" and I didn't find any changes in the names? the translation that you've read is probably NOT an official one and you should report it to the proper authorities...

[Lord Nargogh]

I know that there were few translations of LOTR in Poland (In fact, it's a proof how great the story is, when there's more then one translation of it), but unfortunatelly, I've read the worst. It's from the publisher Zysk i S-ka. I've read translator's commentary, and curiously, it seemed that he was very proud from his translation, and its difference from the other versions.

And one more curiosity: in this translation, "dwarves" are no longer "krasnoludy". Now they're called "krzaty" XD

[Rankin]

"krzaty?"

At first I was staring in disbelief but then Tolkien's dwarves are really fairy tale creatures and unlike - for example - Warhammer "pure manliness and awesome, chopping your knees off". There might be some - albeit thin - logic to that.

Also, I've had pleasure of reading Tailchaser's Song in both languages. While polish version was nice and interesting, it didn't even compare to the original. I guess that comes with the job of translating between two rather different languages... For example, polish translators seem to have major difficulty with portraying various english variations, such as scottish, irish or "ye olde english": in TS, Eatbugs, a character speaking like an older/scottish person (y'know, the "wee laddie" type), lost most of his charm. Then again, Tailchaser himself became just "Łowca"...

That's why nothing beats reading in original whenever possible, eh?